Is testing online… the next step?

Neat, Brad!

Hey Carla.  Glad you’re taken by the idea!  We think it’s neat too!

Interesting to incorporate web cam (in addition to whatever other safeguards you have in place) to watch test takers online.  I’m wary of any at-home testing no matter what safeguards may be considered “in place”.  In fact, it’s all standardised testing that is a concern.  At the recent Languages Canada conference, the overwhelming take-away was evidently about rampant corruption in IELTS, TOEIC, etc abroad when using these scores to enter universities here.  As a result, the quality of students linguistically is decreasing to the point where it may no longer be attractive for legit students to study here…

Hey Ty.  Long time no see  Been busy?    (oui, oui,  I know!)

There are a number of issues at hand and I agree that standardization is among them, however your point almost goes towards the need for a more strict enforcement of or more realistic evaluation of students’ real level in an effort to maintain a higher level for “legit students”.  In the end, there’s quite a bit of money and politics involved, which points to the level of corruption that we’ve seen recently even in highly guarded testing environments.Another issue is physical vs virtual study in general, just as we’re questioning the physical vs virtual assessment.  The final issue is the ethics of testing industry that requires international students to pay such a high price to be able to have a chance at greater employment or study abroad.  I think we’re trying to address that issue more than anything, just as we are with the pay what you want.Interesting times, my friend.  Interesting times.

Great initiative – but as Tyson indicates, I too am slightly sceptical of  any online/home testing. As a formative means of testing I think it’s great and am sure that your webcam+ will deter a number of possible ‘cheats’. That said – it is obvious that a number of standardised, internationally accepted tests are not functioning the way they should and it’s time there was a review and input from other sources such as yours to give everyone a wake-up call. I hope your project proves a success and that the results will be acknowledged accepted by (language) schools.

Hi Brad,
just a practical point I notice from the certificate – have TOEIC et al given permission for their names / trademarks to be used in this way?  Wouldn’t want you to get into any trouble!
David

Hey David,

Thanks for the concern. Edulang has been in the business for 20 years and we know the rules of the game.  I have to say: I do love all the feedback from the PLN
Cheers, Brad

Hey Louise.

I really appreciate the input.  I can understand where your and Tyson’s skepticism comes from and at the same time we think there is an evolution possible in this direction.  I too agree that standardized testing will be shaken up a bit over the next few years and we hope our input will be heard.

Thanks for the kind words and support!  Cheers, Brad

I love where you’re going with this Brad. My only question is around credibility. People pay the big bucks to get Cambridge U’s logo behind their certification, right? And will your certificate carry weight for students who want to study in an English speaking university? 

Please don’t take this as dirt throwing….it’s totally not. Just wondering how that whole credibility factor will work?

Hey Aaron,

I don’t see it as dirt-throwing at all, but thanks for making that clear  

We could both see the situation from from another angle too.  Was Google credible 10 years ago?  Did facebook exist?  Who’s to say that an online test like this, even if originally from a small player won’t be something that takes off in an unimaginable way, especially if teachers and schools are behind it.

It has tons of advantages for the “consumer” in the end; it costs 10-20X less and can be taken at home, or if schools wanted to, of course they could have students take them at their university as well.  

I think a lot of what we do at Edulang is trying to take out the middle man, and all of the extra commercial weight that comes with so many of the products we see within our industry, and hence make it expensive for learners.  We want to drop the barriers and put English learning and an English Certificate into as many hands as possible.  

There will always be people to spend $1000 on a bottle of wine, but there will be a 10,000 more people that will want the $10 bottle.  We think it’s the same for English and the internet is revolutionizing how all of this is possible.  Exciting to see what’s around the corner, no!  

Cheers, Brad

Nicely put Brad. I like your answer, and you’re right: X years ago, Cambridge was nothing.  Yeah…I really like where you’re coming from here. 

And just curious: how close to the real thing are the tests? I currently work through Oxford Publishing’s online learning platform to do all of our preliminary evaluation exams to determine English level. (That has been a GODSEND for us.) But they also manage TOEIC, TOEFL, and IELTS practice exams. I’ve often wondered just how close they are to the real deal…..because they sure are more affordable than the real deals….Thanks for the discussion.

Again – not to pick nits, but…  The University of Cambridge was “nothing” approximately 803 years ago….  They’ve done quite a lot since then…
To pick up on your point regarding how close publisher tests are to branded tests (and this isn’t a comment on Edulang, but more on coursebooks) – I think you could probably say they’re close in terms of structure, but not necessarily in terms of reliability (though that would depend on the item).  Both UCLES and ETS (Cambridge and TOEFL/IC) do a LOT of work into testing research and development.  

In my experience coursebooks tend to mimic tasks rather than reproduce them.

David

Hi Brad,

I’ve been thinking a lot about testing over the past week or two, with a view to a blog post of my own, but I’ve just not had time to finish it yet…!

I think anything that makes language teaching and by extension language testing more accessible to learners is to be welcomed and I wish you every success – I’m very curious to see how things turn out for you!

I’m also curious to see how your test system works – do you have a demo version available?  Without trying it out, it’s difficult to comment with full knowledge, but as a potential employer of someone walking through the door with one of these certificates, my first question would be how do I know what this represents?  (CEFR banding?  Test validity?)  As a teacher, I’d like to know how reliable the test is.  Do you do item testing?  What about differently right answers?…….

I also wanted to ask Louise what she meant when she said “internationally accepted tests are not functioning the way they should”….  Which tests and how not functioning? 

I think you have a good idea here – I have some initial reservations – but I think this is something that could go a very long way very quickly!  

Bonne chance,
David

Hey David and Aaron,

I like the questions you’re asking, and don’t see any of it as dirt-throwing or nut-picking.  Just great points and I hope I respond as equally well.

Standards are established over time and standards die away with time as well.  When something of equal or better value (or even close but a little less) arrives and enchants the consumer, no one cares what the standard is as long as they’re getting what they bargained for, an especially if it’s a good eal.  Quality is of course a core issue, but we all know very well that’s often not the core issue— price and convenience often are, and frankly our offer blows the others out of the water.

This is not to say that I don’t think our product is as of high quality as the current standards.  AU CONTRAIRE.  I would love you both to try out the test and challenge you to find how it is not every cent as well laid-out and pedagogical as the current standards.  I personally think our standard is very close in nature, which does beg the question as Aaron queried “Why are theirs so expensive when Edulang’s is so affordable”  

We don’t have a HUGE marketing team trying to sell the test, and no we don’t have 1000 researchers working on pyschometrics.  Do you need that many?  We have a brilliant team, PhDs working in the field for well over 30 years writing our materials, and really when it boils down to it, even if the standards were 10% better than ours, when given the choice, who is going to better 2000% more for 10% better quality?  

I’d love to have your input on the test.  Unfortunately I can’t provide them for free as our team has worked very hard on them and we have already lowered all of our commercial barriers with pay what you want so we do need to keep things in order so that we can continue to produce quality ELT materials.  

Merci 4 the convo, and look forward to your replies.  Cheers, Brad

Hey David,

Again thanks for engaging the discussion and really asking the right questions, in addition to the kind words and ‘bonne chance’.  Exciting times!
 
I’ve addressed the demo issue in the comment above and I agree that employers are going to ask those kind of questions when they see the certificate.  I see this being able to evolve quite quickly from our side but I can’t comment on the specific details just yet; business is business and there are always secrets, right!

I’m going to have to address the more pedagogical questions concerning the test with our team, and again thanks so much for the positivity and intitial reactions— if you didn’t have reservations, it would mean you weren’t thinking it through because anything that is new is not 100% visible until you’ve really understood it and seen it up close, so again, I do hope you give our certificate a try, and if you are impressed (which I’m betting), then please do share it widely as you’re right and I agree 100% that :  ”anything that makes language teaching and by extension language testing more accessible to learners is to be welcomed”

Cheers, Brad

Interesting idea, Brad. My first thought about this is that it makes gaining a qualification financially accessible to those who don’t have the luxury of Mummy and Daddy to fund their trip to an English speaking country/local language school, and those whose government also don’t provide for such things. I am teaching so much IELTS at the moment (3×90 + 1x 45 lessons every day), and every single one of my students is from a more-than-financially stable background. These exams cost a lot, both in prep and then the payment for sitting the test, plus travel and other expenses. By introducing online testing, we can at least lessen the burden of the costs for the exam and travel. Good work. 

Will be interested to hear more about how you will ensure security in the future! 

All the best Brad, have a fab Friday. 
Jem

This could kill of TOEIC Brad.

In fact, I raised this  point in class last night when I showed my class my latest blog post on their empty classrooms. They said it was silly to learn online or in internet-enabled classrooms and then do a paper test. I agree. We need to be all online or not. My students have no notebooks or study books, everything is online and so it seems normal to do tests online too. This is why I’m bringing in the BULATS as all I need to do is make a crash course on the VLE and voila. In fact, Cambridge are developing online versions for the main exams. You can’t stop progress but holding online exams in test centres vs doing them at home is a sticky issue.If  I have 200 students in a room doing the test on their laptops can I be sure they’re not on the web? 

 Hi Tyson,

 It’s interesting to hear about corruption in English Language Proficiency Testing. I know Universities around the world are paying more attention to student retention strategies, including for international students because of the well known inadequacies with these kinds of tests…even when legitimate. With a lot of practice and sound test taking techniques, students are scoring well above their true level in the likes of TOEFL, IELTS, etc.

It sounds fantastic Brad! You’ve been doing a great job! More and more students are tend to practice EDULANG testing, and then they will be glad to take one you are offering. 

Anyway, the more we trust test takers the more they will do it in good faith. 

I agree with you, Nina and this is the case in any personal network.  The game does change when there is quite a bit at stake and it’s no longer personal relationships between a community, but a large international game.  This is also why of course we’ve put measures in place to prevent fraud.   Thanks for your support!  -Brad

Thanks so much, Nina.  I want to personally thank you for your support with this initiative as well as our PWYW movement.  So glad to have you on board and wishing you a fine weekend!

Cheers, Brad

The world moves fast and it is often smaller organizations that can put in place change, especially when compared to very large organizations that are not nearly as nimble with huge infrastructures slowing them down both in a decision and financial sense.

Interesting to hear what your students think of this all.

There are of course many ways to survey students taking a test and we have put many in place.  Of course this kind of security against fraud is always something that evolves just as the trickery to move beyond it does too.  We can only do our best, can’t we!

Cheers, Brad

Nice to hear that you see both the value of this in general, but also specifically for those students who would have a hard time investing as much as others in prep and the expensive tests.  That was a big motivation for us, and we’re really happy to see the great reaction from teachers so far.  

Have a fine weekend yourself, Jemma!

Great initiative, Brad! I wish you success and will share this opportunity with those that may be interested, starting with the director of the school of language where I teach.
Hugs!

In reply to David’s question above: Because of  ”onlookers” I don’t really feel at liberty to mention the test we have ‘issues’ with, but suffice to say there is a clear drop in level of spoken English (when viewed in comparison to previous years), in spite of the official ‘level’ remaining the same. Because of this we’re looking into raising our requirements or simply using other tests.

Hey Marisa.  Thanks for the support.  ;-) Keep me posted if your director has any questions.  Cheers!  

I’ve seen some comments regarding how legit home testing can be. Well, one way or the other, it seems to be a new trend. The british Council now has online testing options.

http://cbpt.s3.amazonaws.com/cb-fce/index.html

And how about Toefl IBT – so, it’s not really new, is it?

From an online teaching perspective,  I think that this test option is interesting and useful for students who come online looking for practice in fluency development, but lack any specific goals as such.

The test could serve as a validation of what they have been learning from an objective and more official stance.

Of course, British council exams are about 180 euro – That’s what Greek students everywhere pay – Greece is a huge exam market. However, it would be very tough to get them to ‘leave’ Cambridge ESOL from an academic qualification point of view, though, some who need English for practical purposes may try it.

Let’s see what global grassroots decide:)

and good luck!!

I know that Cambridge and TOEFL have examination centres – so that makes it more official.

The web cam sounds like a solution.

Hey Sylvia.  Thanks for stopping by and joining the conversation.  I’ll respond to your points one-by-one.

It is new in that it’s online from anywhere whereas the TOEFL® ibt is from a testing center, and as the others it’s very expensive.  So it’s nice in its price range and in its convenience.

Yes, fraud is an issue in every business, everywhere.

I think the students could have specific goals too as this test is bent towards workplace language and can be compared to the TOEIC®.  And yes, at first the challenge might be finding the right fit for this test when compared to IELTS, Cambridge and other tests, but the unique nature of our offer (price and convenience) will of course have its benefits when finding its place.

Global grassroots indeed  Thanks for sharing your thoughts!  Cheers, Brad

I have just thought of a challenge. How about testing the ‘security’ by getting ‘subjects’ to TRY cheating. There might be very interesting feedback and it would either validate effectiveness or help to brainstorm new security ideas.

I like the way you think, Sylvia. I’ll share the feeback with the team. There might be a time where that might be a good idea, though maybe not RIGHT at the start either. We want to launch the product with the best direction which is that it opens a new standard for all students, despite their financial situation, and that they can do it from anywhere. Once it’s become a bit more popular, it would be interesting to have cheater try to bounce on it a bit Will keep you posted.

So now I don’t need to pay for a TOEIC Certificate? Will this test replace the TOEIC?

Ah time will tell and you might very well be right, Hamid.  

The Edulang certificate is very close to the TOEIC® and its score is on the same scale.  The internet creates opportunities for very rapid changes, and many teachers and learners question the high price tag on current industry standards, so I do think we will see a lot of movement in this industry and I think our solution is a very unique and attractive offer.  

Thanks for stopping by.  Cheers, Brad

This is a great initiative. I remember when I had to take my TOEFL and I had to make a long drive just to take this test (was part of my college application so it was important). This remote test scoring would solve a lot of problems and be much cheaper.

Thanks for stopping by Thanh.  We agree that it would lighten the load for students both financially and convenience-wise.  Cheers, Brad

 I am second to Thanh, and absolutely agree with Brad.
Really great job. My student has just come back from Kiev where she took a TOEFL test. She is going to study in Holland.  This news impressed her. She would also prefer not to travel somewhere, spending lots of time and money to be evaluated.

Thanks Nina.  It is a real, real issue for students all across the world and I certainly hope we can spread the word far enough so that this new test can too become a standard to even the playing field a bit!  Cheers, Brad

[...] Edulang launched its own English Standard last week, I’ve bumped up against a lot of tough and interesting discussions all over the [...]

Brad,
I just read Sylvia’s post ( http://salis.gr/wordpress/?p=1855&fb_source=message  and Kirsten’s reviews on Edukwest ( http://www.edukwest.com/pay-what-you-want-edulangs-social-experiment-lets-buyers-decide-how-much-to-pay/ ) .  I am involved with a China startup school and find your integration of assesment tools (inexpensive testing) to be an immediate need.  However, as I am not an academic, I am having a hard time getting my head around the “big picture” of how it all can work together in setting up and tracking.  I like the idea of a transparent turn-key addition ot our future school. 

Is there a white paper, video or anything to help me see how your tools would be incorporated into a small school?

Thanks,

George Machlan

Hi George,

Glad you enjoyed those wonderful articles and took the time to stop by and leave a comment here.  

I think the easiest thing for me to do is to shoot you an email so that I can better paint that big picture for you.  Sending that off now. 

Cheers, Brad

[...] September, Edulang will release another certificate like the ECE (Edulang Certificate of English), however this time – to even the playing ground for students [...]

[...] we launched the Edulang Certificate of English, our 100% online English assessment, a number of teachers and schools have asked for a few tweaks [...]

Hello Thanh. Anh co the chi giup em chi tiet ve trang web edulang nay duoc khong? Em muon thi va hoc tieng anh ma khong phai di dau het